In this episode of Insight Mind Body Talk, Jeanne talks with Kelly Gardner, a licensed mental health therapist and certified yoga therapist, about using the concepts of Ayurveda to improve mental and physical health. Ayurveda, the "sister science" of yoga, is a system that relies on the elements of nature -- air, water, earth, fire and ether -- to bring our lives into balance. They talk about how to tune in to each person's true nature to live more in rhythm in mind, body and soul.
Kelly Gardner is a Licensed Mental Health Therapist, Certified Yoga Therapist, Yoga Health Coach, and Certified Daring Way Facilitator. She specializes in trauma-focused yoga therapy in clinical settings and in private sessions as well as mindset and lifestyle coaching. She is certified to lead the 3-course curriculum created by Brené Brown and combines that work with the Ayurvedic lifestyle habits to create lasting change. Kelly lives in Memphis, TN with her husband and 2 dogs.
Produced by Jeanne Kolker
Music by Jason A. Schultz
Edited by Jeanne Kolker and Jason Klein
[00:00:00] The number one most grounding force, for our mind-body system is going to be routine. Being consistent having routine can help the nervous system, know what to expect. And that can help to start bringing us back into balance.
Welcome to Insight Mind Body Talk, a body-based mental health podcast. We're your hosts, Jessica Warpula Schultz and Jeanne Kolker. Whether you've tried everything to feel better and something is still missing or you've already discovered the wisdom of the body. This podcast will encourage and support you in healing old wounds, strengthening relationships, and developing your inner potential- all by accessing the mind body connection.
Please know, while we're excited to share and grow together. This podcast is not intended to be a substitute for mental health treatment. It doesn't replace [00:01:00] the one-on-one relationship you have with a qualified healthcare professional and is not considered psychotherapy.
Thanks Jess. And thank you for listening. Now, let's begin a conversation about what happens when we take an integrative approach to improving our wellbeing.
Welcome to Insight Mind Body Talk. I’m Jeanne Kolker, your host for today. We’re talking today with Kelly Gardner. She's a licensed mental health therapist, certified yoga therapist, yoga health coach, and certified Daring Way facilitator. She specializes in trauma focused yoga therapy in clinical settings and in private sessions as well as mindset and lifestyle.
She is certified to lead the three course curriculum created by Brene Brown and combines that work with Ayurvedic lifestyle habits to create lasting change. Kelly lives in Memphis, [00:02:00] Tennessee, with her husband and two dogs. Welcome Kelly. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Me too. And I'm loving this topic today. So I have dropped a few mentions of Ayurveda in some of our previous recordings. And I wanted to have someone on the podcast who can help our listeners understand more about those important body of knowledge. So can you just give us an overview? What does Ayurveda?
I'm here Veda in 60 seconds. We'll see what I can do. I Ayurveda is often referred to as a sister science to yoga. So it is, uh, an ancient lifestyle, uh, and it really has the aim of setting us up to feel our best preventing future issues. It's kind of a preventative lifestyle. So if we break down the [00:03:00] word Iyer, Veda, I, your means life and Veda means the study of the knowledge of, uh, so really it is, um, kind of like your guide book, which I feel like in the west, we, we sometimes neglect to learn or teach, um, young folks, uh, about how to be in their bodies, how to self-regulate, how to honor what your body is asking for.
And that's really what Ayurveda is all about. And, and it very much aligns with. How nature functions and how nature tends toward a thriving state. And we're talking about this as, white female Western people coming at this with some privilege and we just want to acknowledge our [00:04:00] teachers. Of course, absolutely.
Yeah. So this knowledge has been passed down for many thousands of years, trim India, Southeast Asia. And, you know, we're, we're using these tools, which is so amazing to consider like how applicable these concepts are to us today as Westerners for sure. And how applicable these tools can be. Not only to.
Help us in our physical bodies, but very much so in our mental health and in that realm. So I have very often taken teachings from yoga and Ayurveda into clinical settings to support everything else that's being done there. And that's a lot of the work we do and say, which our listeners are aware of is that we do a body centered approach and, and I'm a yoga therapist and there's a few other yoga therapists on staff.
And, we use this knowledge , [00:05:00] to really help people, bring some more awareness and balance to their lives. And Ayurveda is I think just so broad and so deep that there's so many things that we can pick and choose to use with ourselves and with the people that we're working with.
So my understanding is that it's, it's based on the elements. 100%. You're absolutely right. And let me just reinforce your statement that it is broad and it is deep. It is, um, very much like yoga in that way. In that I think if you had the interest to, for the rest of your life, learn and practice teachings from yoga and Ayurveda, that's 100% possible.
But yes, when we get down to the fundamental teachings of Ayurveda, it is very much based on the five elements that exist in nature. And many people are very familiar with four of those [00:06:00] five elements. So we all are usually pretty familiar with earth, water, fire, and air. And in Ayurveda, we actually teach a fifth element ether sometimes called space.
And that one actually, I think it is less known because it is. It's invisible. Right? It's so subtle. It literally holds the space for the other elements to show up and be seen. And so it's not noticed as much, but it's supremely important, just as important as the other four, they all have their time, their place, they all show up in our bodies.
They all show up in our minds. So we have all five elements within us. Uh, and we can see once we start to get familiar with kind of the characteristics of those elements, we can see how they show up in our minds and our bodies, how they show up in the seasons in nature. [00:07:00] Um, and it really, in that way, I think helps us to relate to.
We are a part of nature. So it's a way for us to really get in tune with the natural world, our connection to nature, to explore just the unique ways that that's manifested in our lives. Absolutely cool. Yeah. I think connection is the key word there. Not only are we connecting with nature, but it's also a way to see how we all have these elements within us.
So we, it's a way to connect with other people that this way, in which we are the same, I think many, many messages that we receive and our culture can point out how we're different. So it's a, it's a connecting science in that way, and it's a way to connect to yourself and really tune in to. What's going to be best for me.
Ayurveda is so individualized. There are ways that we can [00:08:00] almost categorize people to have a starting point, but once we have this starting point, okay, it looks like your baseline may fall into this category. Then it becomes very much individualized in, even though you're in this broad category, you're going to have your own natural tendencies, your own needs, your own desires.
Um, and so it can be set up really for each person in their own way. So we are born with certain elements dominant is what you're saying. Yes. And actually I'm going to take it back a little bit further from that. And Ayurveda the theory, the belief, the teaching is that we're actually conceived. With our own perfect balance.
So it's before we're even born upon conception, your perfect balance of the elements was established. [00:09:00] And then as we go through, development in utero and then as we're born and we moved through our lives, the circumstances that we're in, the people that were around the foods that we eat, I mean, everything basically has an impact on that balance and tends to pull us out of balance, how we live our lives.
And so Ayurveda often will say that the practice of the lifestyle of Ayurveda is all about remembering who we are coming back into our own perfect balance. Oh, that sounds so lovely. Right. So like discovering our true nature. Absolutely. That sounds a lot like the work that we do as therapists, the introspection self exploration, and this is one avenue for us to do that one lens to look through.
Yep. Absolutely. Well said. [00:10:00] Well, thank you. So my understanding is that there are certain constitutions, certain kinds of combinations of elements. You would talk a little bit about that. Yeah. That's what we, when I was referring to like the categories, that's what I was referring to and it is often referred to as your constitution and you'll hear it called your dosha.
D O S H a and that word dose. Um, I'm going to tell you, I was going to say, let me tell you what it means, but let me also preface this by saying that our, Ayurveda like yoga was originally, um, shared in the Sanskrit language. And that language is, is a little different than English. And that it's very much based on experience, vibration [00:11:00] emotion.
I mean, it's, it's a feeling language, so I'm prefacing my, um, transcribing this word for you. Um, because you can find lots of different translations. Um, it can be very much based on the person who's, who's translating the translation of the word dosha that is helpful for me. And that I typically use is fault line.
And so really what that means is. Um, this is the place where you can most easily be pushed out of balance. So let me explain that the three categories are the three doshas the three energies, really. And we can talk about that a little bit further as far as how these energies rule in our bodies and in our minds and throughout the day and the year in our lives.
Um, but our constitution, our perfect balance is a [00:12:00] combination of these energies. And just like we have all five elements within us. We have all four, all three doses within us as well. And those doses are made up of a combination of the five elements. All right. So now I think I'm drawing a map here am I I'm following you.
Okay, perfect. So your unique, perfect balance that is, uh, established upon conception. It's called your proximity, your proximity. And you don't have to remember that word, but that just refers back to kind of your baseline like that perfect balance that you may be working to get closer to with your habits and, and the shifts that you're making when you're out of balance, that imbalance is called your Vikruti.
So close words. Uh Prakriti is balanced. Vikruti is where we're imbalanced. So we have [00:13:00] these three categories. The Sanskrit names for these , are Vata and Vata is, , let me just tell you a little bit about what it looks like when it's in balance and when it's out of balance. If that'll help okay, so Vata, if we're going to talk about the elements that make up this energy, it is made up of ether or space and air air is the main element there.
Um, ether, a more subtle, a little bit more of kind of the secondary element. When, when we really start to look at this category, there are multiple areas we can look at. We can look at how Vata shows up in the physical body and what that might look like. We can look at how Vata shows up in the mind patterns in the mind, uh, the mood, emotional patterns.
We can look at how Vata shows up in, um, our habits and our tendencies, as well [00:14:00] as our gifts and, and what we have to offer to the world. So. Again, we could go really deep here. There's a lot. I'm just going to give you a brief, a brief look at the 62nd overview. It's more like a 60 minute, but this is a huge topic.
And we are just, we're sprinkling some, crumbs for people to follow so that they get bread crumbs. We're just cracking the door open here. So in balance in our, um, our gifts, our qualities and in our minds, Vata is very creative Vata, uh, in balance frequently receives inspiration. Vata is spontaneous.
And if you think about air and ether, um, just those two elements. I mean, they're invisible, but [00:15:00] we know that they're there, but they're also. We would call them subtle. They're there in this realm of their light. Um, they're all around, but we don't, we don't sit around going, oh man, the air is really weighing me down today.
Right? So in that way, they're very much the opposite of earth. And so Vata is that creative move all over, um, fun, loving, spontaneous fly by the seat of my pants kind of thing. Now out of balance, when there's too much of that happening, then we may see a presentation of anxiety. Uh, excessive worry. We may even see panic, panic attacks, that kind of thing.
Um, there may be a rumination, uh, racing thoughts, so you can kind [00:16:00] of see how we can take that balance state. And when there's too much of it, it's, it's really overstimulation in some, so that's that's Vata. Okay. So the second dosha, the second category we're going to talk about is Pitta and the elements that make up Pitta are mainly fire and a little bit of water.
So Pitta is the only category that has heat in it. A fire is the only of the five elements that's hot. And again, fire is subtle. Water's a little more gross. So that brings a little bit more balance, um, to pit out with a little bit of grounding, just a little bit now in balance, because Pitta is driven by this fire element.
Um, it shows up as like drive and motivation, um, very much [00:17:00] organized task oriented, but also very fair there's that balance of, of Pitta. Um, and, and when I say fair, I also want that to represent like very justice minded, fair leader, that kind of thing. Now out of balance, Pitta can show up as, um, when we take that too far, it can be, um, To task oriented.
We can see that show up in, like workaholism. What we would refer to is, you know, never taking a break, some show up as a lot of competition and comparison, a lot of judgment. Um, this is where perfectionistic mindset may show up and in the mood too much fire is where we might see irritability, frustration, anger, rage, things [00:18:00] like that.
So there's a little peak into the balance and imbalance of Pitta. And then the third category, the third, third dosha is Kafa and this is the combination of the elements, it's combination of water and earth.
And both of those things are heavy. If you have a bucket full of water, one gallon of water weighs eight pounds. Interesting. Here's a little fact for you. And if you have a shovel full of dirt, that's heavy. So both of these things are heavy and in just a moment, um, we can come back to how the elements impact the movement of energy in these categories, but Kafa heavy, , and very stable.
So in balance we see coffee show up as calm, laid back, um, stable, go with [00:19:00] the flow, and water is also the cohesive force in our bodies. Water is sticky. It's what holds our body together and in Kafa that comes out as it feels good to be around someone who is very high in coffin nature.
And, um, you just, you kind of want to stick with them. They're stable. It feels good. Now when there's too much of that stability, it can show up as stuckness. It can show up as, um, low motivation, low drive. Low ability to act even, uh, if you think of water and earth, you mix them together and you get mud. So you can kind of envision like I'm trying to move through all of this mud that's within myself.
It can feel very, , very difficult to do that. And in the mind and in the mood, this can also show [00:20:00] up. As I mentioned, water's cohesive too much. Coffee can show up as a holding on to. So whether it's in the physical body, holding on whether it's in the mind, , it can be holding on to things in any way, whether it's , collecting things and having lots of clutter, or whether in our minds really holding on to, , grudges or more often, it shows up as holding onto.
A romantic idea of how it used to be so good. Yes, very much so. And so in the mood, uh, too much coffee can, can display as depression, um, feeling really down and, and hopelessness, helplessness. Um, I don't know what to do. I've tried and it didn't work. So I give up kind of thing. So there's, there's like [00:21:00] your, your quick little overview.
So we're born. Are we born in balance or do we have one of those doses? That's a little more dominant. Yeah, that's a good question. So let's go back to conception. And even when your perfect balance is established, that does not mean that all three of these doses are equal within you. So. My proximity, my perfect balance.
I am high in Pitta. Um, but I'm also almost as high in Vata and I'm very low in Kafa, but that's my perfect balance. Now in utero, let's say if my mom was frequently stressed out, really anxious, um, I could be born with a Vata imbalance, right. Because I was experiencing [00:22:00] that imbalance in her in utero. So you're not necessarily born in your perfect balance.
Um, and there are other things that would impact that balance even down to, you know, like what mom eats, how much she sleeps, all of that. Um, so everyone has their perfect balance, but that doesn't necessarily mean. The three doses are equal. Okay. Okay. And then as we grow and we are products of our environment and our experiences, that's where we start to recognize where maybe we are dominant in one or the other.
And we can kind of tell like where we are at this point in our lives. Like what dosha is dominant is that right? When we really start to look at our natural tendencies and often if we're talking about how do I figure out what my baseline is, what my perfect balance is. We'll kind of refer back to, to [00:23:00] childhood because kids don't kids don't hold back, that they, until they're trained to really be concerned with what other people think kids will honor what their bodies need.
They'll, you know, act. Whatever way feels good for them in the moment. And so we can really kind of look back at our natural tendencies to see, okay. I think that's pretty close to my baseline. And now if I look at where I am in my life right now, I feel very anxious. I have a really short temper, uh, we can start to see, okay, maybe that's what's out of balance.
Now let me go back to the definition of, of dosha and fault line. And I mentioned that I'm highest in Pitta, secondarily, Vata, and lowest in Kafa because Pitta is the highest energy, the highest dosha within my constitution. If I had even just a tiny [00:24:00] bit more Pitta, very easy for me to go out of balance in that way, because there's already the most of that within me.
It would take a whole lot more for me to be out of balance in Kafa because I'm very low income. So, what would it look like to add more pedo to your life? That's a good question, too. Um, so these energies show up in our minds in our bodies, but they also show up in nature back to that idea that we're part of nature.
And we can see these different qualities of the elements really show up in the seasons. So I live in Memphis, Tennessee in summer, it is hot and it's really humid. And so that's adding more heat into my body just because I'm in hot humidity all the time. And so typically when we get to the end of a [00:25:00] season, we start to see the signs in our bodies that we're holding on to some of that energy, some of that.
Those qualities in our bodies. It's typically at the end of summer where I'll have people start asking about things like acid reflux, acne, rashes, these kind of inflamed, um, presentations in the body. And that's where we look at. Um, how can we calm that down now at any point, it doesn't have to be at the end of the season.
At any point, we can build up an imbalance within us and how we live our lives. Our daily habits really have an impact on that to help come back into balance in Ayurveda. You'll never hear it referred to as let's add more Kapha and Vata to try to get up there with Pitta, right? We want to calm down what [00:26:00] is out of control.
So in the. State I just described, we would work to pacify Pitta. That's how we would say it. But very often those practices are, let me give Vata and Kapha more attention, um, in some ways, or let me look at the qualities of Pitta. Pitta is hot. So I want to do things that are cooling, right? It's usually about adding in the opposite of what we're experiencing to come back into.
'cause like increases. Like, so if you're hot and you're living in Memphis and your Pitta is in overdrive, you're not gonna, you know, crush a bunch of jalapeno poppers. Right. You're, you're getting ideally, but actually people often do so because like does increase. Like that's not what we'd [00:27:00] recommend, but we can also kind of get in a groove of, this is what I am.
This is what I know. And this is what feels good to me. And so in addition to like, increases, like we could also say like attracts, like, um, so it's not too uncommon to have someone who's really high end pitch. You know, love those really hot and spicy foods, put hot sauce on everything. Go for the jalapenos in the middle of summer, do the hot yoga, do hot yoga, you know, go to really hot workouts.
I mean, we can just be drawn to that, which we are. And so we may not even recognize that we're just exacerbating the issue, but when we start to see, okay, I am on fire, my head is on fire. It, it often makes me think of and refer to the movie inside out. I don't know if you're familiar with this where I [00:28:00] was going to refer to it a lot.
There are three characters in that movie that in my mind perfectly represent the three donations. So we have. That's the little character that's fear. And if we get into some of the physical attributes there, I mean, he even represents it. He's very lanky and winery and thin and he's running around and he's worried and he's creating, you know, reports on what could go wrong.
Very much Vata out of balance. Um, Pitta is anger. You know, your head flames up that Louis Black character. Who's just yelling all the time and his hair's on fire. And then sadness would represent the coffee imbalance. You know, she lays down and she's like, I just can't do it. Joy's dragging her by the foot.
You know? Um, so I think if you can have a, [00:29:00] representation, an idea in your mind, those characters would, would very much represent what we're talking about. That's a great illustration of the. Yeah, it really is. So if we go back to adding in the opposite, that's how we start to come back into balance.
In nature, we're constantly in pulsation between two poles between two extremes, the term for that.
Now Ayurveda is spawn. It's actually the root word for spandex, right? So we can go one way and then we can come back the other way. Stretchy. Exactly. Well, we want to be nice and stretchy. And when we're in a healthy state, we are able to go from one side to the other. Now we could even start to look at this in the nervous system.
A healthy nervous system is able to move into a stimulated state, but then it's also able to come back down into a [00:30:00] calm state. If we get stuck at one end of the spectrum, as we're talking about too much Pitta, or even in the nervous system, I'm stimulated super stimulated I'm stimulated. I can't come back to calm.
We would add in qualities practices, things that are from the opposite end of the spectrum to start bringing us back to the center, back into balance. Okay. So I've heard about the, the seasons, you know, you've been talking about how, you know, we are kind of products of the natural world. So can you talk a little bit about what that means?
Just like, you know, different times of life, different times of day, how things are, are all connected and dominant. This is one of my most favorite subjects to talk about because it's so applicable. And, and when we [00:31:00] really start to recognize the qualities within us during different times of the day, , different times of the year, different times in our lives, We can take advantage of that to feel our best.
So what we're about to talk about is often referred to as the Ayurvedic clock, the dosha clock, and this is really where we see these three energies show up within us and around us. So we're going to start with the broadest view and we'll, we'll bring it in throughout our lives. We go through times of one of these three energies being dominant within us.
So we're born and from birth into, I would say through adolescents almost to like early twenties, we're in our Kafa stage. Now, [00:32:00] remember that cafe is earth and water. It has a cohesive nature. It's. Anabolic, it's building in nature and we're in development during those years where we're learning, we're growing, our tissues are building, and we're fluid in our tissues.
We're soft and squishy. And we can see that water element , really overpowering everything else. Right. Then as we get into the years of determining what we're going to do for work, um, what major we're going to go into really getting into focus in our studies and then getting a job. Leaning into, uh, having a family, raising a family we're now in, in the Pitta stage of our lives.
This is where we need to tap into [00:33:00] that ability to use our motivation and our drive to, you know, get things done, pay the bills, take care of the family. And then as we get into older age, we move into the Vata period of our lives. And again, if we think about the elements, this is air and ether and they're both dry.
They're both cool. They're both subtle. This is where in the physical body, we can see things starting to dry out, right. Cruiser are drying out and we're, we in our physical bodies are becoming more subtle. Um, and so we can see how that shows up throughout our lifetime. Oh, that's really interesting. You know, I think about like, it just started bones, you know, like as we age, our bones can get more poorest, so there's that element of space just even in our skeleton.
Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's so cool. Yeah. Yeah. And so when we're, when we recognize that [00:34:00] we can come into lifestyle practices to help support the process, right. Support ourselves through the process of, of living in aging. Now these three energies also have a period of time that they rule throughout the year.
So every year we cycle through these three energies having their season, literally. So right now this is December 16th right now in Memphis. We are in fall. So if we divide the year into three seasons, we have. We'll start with where we are. Uh, we have fall and early winter and that's Vata season.
It's really windy out. Things are drying out, you see leaves turning brown and falling off the trees. We're moving into this cool dry season. And because we're in that element, , that has an impact on our bodies as well. We may find [00:35:00] that our skin starts to dry out. We need to lean into hydration, more things like that, but it can also have an impact on your mind.
We're in those elements all the time. We may, we may feel that. We may feel a little more Spacey or a little more anxious, a little more ungrounded. And so when we recognize that again, there are things we can do to bring ourselves back into balance. Now, once we get into late winter and spring, we move into Kafa.
And so that's where we see a lot more moisture. As in spring, you know, we have new growth. . Everything's just kind of wet. You get up in the morning, the grass is wet. You know, that the new buds are wet. It's that, baby season and nature. Right. So that rebirth almost, , and that's where we can also see, , allergies come up more [00:36:00] congestion that, , mucusy, liquidity, squishy within us, um, kind of build up.
And then once we get into summer, we're in Pitta season. So, um, the hot humidity, um, but also that's where we see kind of the action phase in nature. Right? Everything's in full bloom, everything's green, like everything's turned all the way on in nature. And so throughout the year we experienced these.
Alternation of the energies coming into power for a period of time. And then we also experienced this every 24 hours. Wow. So we're going from macro to micro. Okay. Absolutely. So in a 24 hour period, each of the three energies actually [00:37:00] comes into power in our minds and bodies twice. So there are two times in a 24 hour period that each of these three energies rules.
So I'm gonna, I'm going to give you the overview paint a little picture of, of those times. Now, as I explain this, I'm gonna refer to specific timeframes, but these are guidelines because it's really based on sunrise and sunset. So these timeframes. The a little bit different, depending on the time of year, they may be a little bit different depending on where you live.
So let's start with the middle of the day. If we start with this timeframe between 10:00 AM and 2:00 PM, this is the hottest time of the day, right in nature. But also within us, this is when Pitta rules. This is when,[00:38:00] our digestive fire is strongest. This is when we are most able to use the fire within us to solve problems , and really. The power of Pitta is I want to say digestion, but maybe I should say transformation.
So during this time of day, we're best able to break down things, uh, and turn them into other things. For instance, we can break down the problem and turn it into a plan of action. We can break down the food that we're taking in, turn it into nutrients, assimilated into our tissues. So the power of Pitta is really the ability to kind of break down digest process in some ways.
Yeah, that makes sense. [00:39:00] So now, if we move to the afternoon, we moved to the 2:00 PM to 6:00 PM period of time.
This is when Vata comes into power. Vata is Aaron ether. And if you think about wind, it can move in any direction. So typically the energy of Vata is up and out in all directions. It has no container goes wherever it wants to go.
And this is a time of quick reflexes, quick thinking, uh, high creativity. So in the afternoon from 2:00 PM to 6:00 PM, this is a great time to, , create the to-do list for the next day. Um, tackle creative projects. To be creative in your endeavors, whatever it is. Okay. And then if we move [00:40:00] into the evening time, we have 6:00 PM to 10:00 PM and that's when cuffa comes into to rule and it's earth and water it's heavy cafe is a downward flowing energy.
So what we want to do is honor the downward flow of energy here, typically somewhere early in the evening at the end of auto or the very beginning of Kafa, maybe we're eating a light meal last meal of the day, and then we're going to honor the downward flow of energy and really begin to wind.
That's when we get our comfy pants on to settle into the couch, maybe absolutely settled down into the couch. Yes.
So ideally this is a time of connection, cohesion, connection with ourselves. So maybe we are doing some self [00:41:00] practices. Uh, maybe we're taking care of ourselves by doing something we enjoy. Maybe we're connecting with the people that we live with, you know, doing something fun, light, uh, playing a game, or, you know, watching a movie watching inside out something like that.
We should be doing this, but so often I hear, well, I don't get home until eight o'clock and then I got to put food in my mouth and then I got to answer emails. And so like, we're really going against that energy and you know, and that, that's how I think we can really exacerbate imbalances in our mental bodies, especially.
Yeah, absolutely. Right. I often refer to it. As you got to lean into your, your rebellion, you got to lean into that inner rebel to go against maybe the ways that you've always done things or to go against the ways that you were taught to do things.
Now we get into the 10:00 PM to 2:00 AM [00:42:00] timeframe, and we're just going to cycle back through, the doses again. And so now we're coming back into Pitta. Now, remember Pitta is an upward flowing energy and there's a. A magic window, a magical timeframe that you'll have to experiment with to find out for yourself, but there's a magic window.
And if you can fall asleep during that magic window, you'll sleep more deeply and experience more kind of regeneration within, if you can harness that, that window. So typically we'll recommend going to sleep around or by 10:00 PM. So that we beat that upward flow of energy. Now, if we stay up too late, that's where we see this, what we would call second wind.
Right? All of a sudden I'm energized. Again, my brain is clicked on. I'm good to [00:43:00] go. I can stay up for three more hours and, you know, do whatever or watch Netflix , and so we want to beat that upward flow of energy by going to sleep before it really turns on. And when we can go to sleep before that upward flow of energy comes into power, then that fire energy works within us as kind of like the, the night shift of, um, Cleaning house.
This is where we see our mind starts to take everything we've learned throughout the day, process it and, you know, kind of organize. All right. So that goes with that group of knowledge. And what I learned about this that goes with that group of now, so kind of filing it's doing the filing from the day makes sense.
And then we get back into Vata again, 2:00 AM to 6:00 AM.[00:44:00]
So again, up and out and all over quick thinking quick reflexes, if you, if you think about it, if you wake up between two and 6:00 AM say you wake up at 3:00 AM. Like you wake up and your mind goes, click I'm on more difficult to go back to sleep. Um, but it's not Vata energy.
Um, you'll also hear often that people who are consistent writers get up very early in the morning. To harness the not only the quiet in the house and in nature, but also just that, that creative, inspiring energy of Vata early in the morning. So in Ayurveda, we also recommend that you do get up before the sun.
I know that's not everybody's favorite. Um, maybe just a little bit before the sun, just to be able to take a moment to tune in. So even if you just [00:45:00] sit for a few moments and breathe, it's, it's opening ourselves to the inspiration that can guide us through the day.
This may be the time that we practice meditation. This may be the time that we journal or we read something inspiring. So now we're talking about setting ourselves up to be able to respond to our day rather than react to it. How often do we use that in therapy? Right, right. And so we, we can kind of harness that power within us to, to make that choice in the morning.
And then from 6:00 AM to 10:00 AM. Kafa is back downward flow of energy. Um, that too, you can sometimes feel or experience in your mind. If you think I'm really tired, I'm just going to sleep in and you get up at around 9:00 AM and you think, [00:46:00] oh, I think I slept too much. I'm so groggy. I can't, I can't think straight it's taken me forever to get going.
You're trying to wake up in this downward flow of energy, but this is a great time to, um, honor the downward flow of energy early in the morning. We want to drink water to rehydrate. We haven't been drinking water all night long or as much as we do during the day. And that really also helps to, um, flush the system out.
So we want to honor that downward flow of energy and hopefully vacuum await. Let go of the things we don't need from yesterday. And then we can start on that to-do list that we create. This cough a period of time is the perfect time to check things off the list, really get things done because we have that sustainable energy to follow through on, on the things on our list.
I think that's just such a game changer. You know, when I learned [00:47:00] about the Ayurveda clock, I just went, oh, that makes so much sense. You know, first of all, it explains why I wake up at 3:00 AM with anxiety. Hello, Vada. Yes. Yeah. Good morning. And also, you know, it made me think too about, I used to work second shift.
I had really, you know, kind of wild hours, you know, at the newspaper when I was there and I was not in any good head space, you know, my body wasn't very healthy. I was not emotionally very healthy. And now as I've aged, I've definitely tuned in more to these energies and surrender, you know, if I'm not asleep by 10.
PM. I'm going to be very upset. It takes a lot longer to fall asleep typically. Yes, it does. It does.
So can you say a little bit more about, what we can do as, as Westerners in this world to, to really help, to balance our energies , for [00:48:00] improved mental. Yeah. Yeah. That the number one recommendation I would make is routine. So whether we're talking about, uh, we're experiencing mood swings and we're out of balance and that way, or if we're stuck at one end of the spectrum and we're out of balance that way, or even if we've experienced, um, trauma that has dysregulated the nervous system, the number one most grounding force, for our mind-body system is going to be routine.
And so when we can just recognize, oh, it would make sense for me to do that thing. At that time of day, we can start to set our schedule up in a way that feels better in our system, but also being consistent and having routine can help the nervous system, know what to expect. And that can help to start bringing us back into balance.
So it may be things like, you know, going to [00:49:00] bed at the same time every night, Matt can help us to wind down and to, um, to sleep better, to fall asleep more easily, but routine will always be my number one recommendation for balance. And starting to notice. So whether it's noticing how easily you fall asleep or don't fall asleep, noticing how you feel after you eat, when you eat, um, noticing, if your body needs more movement throughout the day, it's really tuning in and recognizing that our bodies can't lie to us.
Our minds have the capacity to lie to us. And they really kind of do they tell us stories all the time that take us out of, um, out of stability, out of, you know, contentment, but our bodies can't, they don't [00:50:00] have the capability to lie to us. Now, our bodies are sending a signals and sensations all the time saying, Hey, this is what I need.
This would be great. If you would do that, uh, in our minds create stories around it, you know, like add it's not important. It can wait, what's the big deal. But when we don't honor our own rhythm, when we don't listen, when we don't set up routine to help the body be in rhythm, then we start to see a buildup of what an Ayurveda we would call AMO.
Or undigested gunk basically. And this can happen in our minds.
I'm able to experience feel and digest my emotions. I mean, these are all representations of how we can be living out of balance. And so the first, the first thing is to become aware and to really start to allow [00:51:00] ourselves to be where we are. We so often fight against where we are. I just like to underscore that this isn't something that requires a lot of money. We don't have to buy all the supplements. We don't have to buy all the oils and potions and, and all of that. It's really just about tuning in. If we can maybe take a little time to meditate, you know, we offer some meditations of free, free courses on our website.
There's so many free resources out there. Um, it's, it can be something as simple as, you know, just increasing your relationship with your mind and body. I think that's what kinda overwhelms people you don't know. And even if, you know, I have the privilege of going to bed whenever I want, I don't have to work second shift anymore. That's not the case for everybody. I understand that. And no matter what you're working with, you can establish a routine that soothes your body no matter what I think that's, [00:52:00] yeah.
Even if you are working second shift and you think, okay, well I'll have to sleep during the day or overnight shift or whatever it is. I have to sleep during the day. And then I'm up at night and I know that's not my natural rhythm creating routine can still help, that can help us to be in imbalance in our circumstances.
So routine, is the foundation really, um, rhythm. We're bringing our minds and our bodies into a rhythm. All of that has an impact on our minds, on our moods.
And again, now we're back to, we're creating the rhythm that allows us to respond to our lives rather than the inflammation we may be living in that that kind of pushes us into react mode. That's powerful. This is such, this is such great stuff. I love, I'm just exploring this. And I, you [00:53:00] know, I would encourage people to, to continue to be curious about this.
Kelly, can you let listeners know how they could find you if they had any questions, love to, uh, I feel like I'm easy to find, but let me share, let me share how to do that. I do have a website. It is your radiant soul.com.
Yeah, I would love to help out in any way, reach out, we can chat, you can look on my website and, and find out more about me and what I do and what I offer.
Wonderful. Thanks, Kelly.
Thank you again for joining us on Insight Mind Body Talk, a body-centered mental health podcast. We hope today's episode was empowering and supported you in strengthening your mind-body connection We're your hosts Jeanne and Jess. Please join us again as we continue to explore integrative approaches [00:54:00] to wellbeing. Until then, take care.