“Where your anger is, there you will find hidden wounds that need to be healed and grief that needs to be acknowledged” --Dr. Caroline Leaf
Why talk about anger? Jess and her guest, Kylie Taylor, MA, LPC will tell you why.
Lots of people find themselves fearful of experiencing and being the recipient of anger. To some, anger can feel powerful and out of control. For these reasons, anger can be labeled as a “bad” emotion, but anger is often a normal, healthy response to perceived threats. It’s a healthy emotion like all others, it’s what you do with anger that can cause problems.
Listen in as Jess and Kylie, discuss the importance of being angry, how to notice feelings of anger in your mind and body, and how to best cope with this big emotion.
Produced by Jessica Warpula Schultz, LMFT
Music by Jason A. Schultz
Edited by Jessica Warpula Schultz
Welcome to Insight Mind Body Talk, a body-based mental health podcast. We're your hosts, Jessica Warpula Schultz and Jeanne Kolker Whether you've tried everything to feel better and something is still missing or you've already discovered the wisdom of the body. This podcast will encourage and support you in healing old wounds, strengthening relationships, and developing your inner potential all by accessing the mind body connection. Please know while we're excited to share and grow together. This podcast is not intended to be a substitute for mental health treatment. It doesn't replace the one-on-one relationship you have with a qualified healthcare professional and is not considered psychotherapy.
Thanks Jess. And thank you for listening. Now, let's begin a conversation about what happens when we take an integrative approach to improving our wellbeing. Welcome to insight, mind, body talk. My name is Jess. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist, trauma informed fitness expert, and your host. Our topic today is anger. An emotion. Most people either avoid and suppress or allowed to run a muck. It can negatively impact jobs, relationships, and really our sense of.
. Our guest is Kylie Taylor. Kylie is a licensed professional counselor. Who's been working in the mental health field for over 15 years.
She works with adults 18 years and up and specializes in severe and persistent mental. Anxiety depression, adjustment issues, anger management, intimate partner violence, and postpartum depression and anxiety. In addition to her role as psychotherapists at insight, we're lucky to have Kylie as a member of our leadership team.
She guides the comprehensive community services, division of insight, counseling and wellness. One of Kylie's life philosophies. We're all in this together. Often mental health issues can feel isolating and outside of our control and seeking help shows incredible strength with the help of others. People do overcome their fears and develop the confidence and skills that are needed to overcome adverse life experiences.
Kylie welcome. We're happy to have you here. Season two. Thank you for having me. It's so great to be talking with you today. well, our topic is anger. Yes. I'm excited to get into it. Um, the episode is actually titled the importance of being angry. Not only because I love myself a good mental health pun , but it's really important to be angry.
And so many of us at some time in our lives have been told or have decided that. Anger is not okay. And it's not an okay emotion. And a lot of times we figure out ways to cope with it because it's gonna be there anyway. And so today's conversation I'm excited to have, because I think it's gonna at least help someone start having a conversation with themself, with other people about their feelings of anger and start looking at their emotions and, and working with them instead of denying them, which is absolutely.
So before we dig in, I'm really interested actually to hear how anger and anger management became an area of interest for you. Yeah. So when I was completing my internship and practicum, um, when I was. Studying to become a counselor. I helped co-facilitate some domestic violence groups and anger was understandably a huge topic that came up a lot.
And we learned, um, you know, all about the healthy, unhealthy aspects of anger, how to cope with anger. And so it's something I learned a lot about and something I found myself interested in learning more as well. I would say emotions provide us with important information and anger, just like other emotions brings a message with it.
So I like to think of it kind of like an alarm clock that lets us know something may be wrong and to pay attention. Definitely. Definitely. So as a therapist, you know, I, I totally agree. Um, there's so much information that comes in with anger and not only just our thoughts and our feelings, but in our bodies.
And we'll get to that soon, too. But if someone let's say someone's sitting across from you or just anyone asks you, like, why, why should we talk about anger? Like, what is the point of acknowledging this? You know, sometimes, you know, very big, very raw emotion. Well, I think lots of people find themselves fearful of experiencing, um, or being the recipient of anger.
So sometimes anger can feel really powerful and out of control. Um, for these reasons anger can be labeled as a bad emotion, but I find that anger is often a normal, healthy response to perceived. So it's a healthy emotion, like all others, and it's what you do with the anger that can cause problems. I also find it interesting because anger is a very, um, acceptable expression of emotion in our culture.
Um, whereas some of the other ones, maybe not as much, um, Some people choose to avoid confronting others because of a fear of how they will respond such as if someone will become angry with them. But conflict, if expressed inappropriate ways can be healthy and often leads to further connection and bonding.
Mm-hmm . I totally agree. You know, often with clients and even, you know, with myself and others, you know, it's, it's not really conflict. Isn't bad. We, we grow through conflict, you know, tough conversations. They have a purpose and if we can work through them and healthy and adaptive ways, you're right. It definitely brings like a deeper.
Deeper sense to that relationship. Um, because we're, we're gonna be upset with people we care about or just even people we don't care about. Right. So, absolutely it it's so natural. So, but I really like what you said earlier. That's labeled as a bad emotion. And, you know, that's part of the reason why we're here today is to, to maybe shift that narrative.
And that often anger, at least I see it show up in my life or in the lives of my clients, you know, through their body, through their nervous system. Um, and so if you're someone, but that being said. I've also experienced where people say, well, I haven't, I don't get angry. You know, I'm, it's not my personality or I just haven't been angry in a long time or me and my partner.
We never have conflict. We never have fights and or other people who maybe weren't allowed to be angry. They were told it's not helpful to get angry. Mm-hmm or it's not an appropriate emotion. Um, so if you're someone who hasn't really felt the emotion of anger in a while, you know, how does one begin to notice if they're angry or when anger is kind of showing up on the scene?
Yeah, so anger, just like other emotions is accompanied by physiological changes in the body. So you might notice increased heart. To increase blood pressure, maybe your cheeks flush. Um, there's also an increase in energy, hormones, epinephrine, and no epinephrine. So those, um, impact our sympathetic nervous system or flight fight and flee response.
Um, so you might notice you're starting to breathe faster, you're rigging harder. Um, and that's really because your airways are starting to open up, bringing more oxygen into the body so that the heart can pump that oxygenated blood to the muscles. As you know, your body might prepare to fight or flee for.
So sometimes this increase in energy is some of what leads to the issues with anger expression. Um, we have all this excess energy in the body. We don't know what to do with it at the, at the moment. And maybe, you know, at times, hopefully anyway, we're not needing to fight off an attacker or run away from the situation.
So we need to find ways of managing the excess energy in the body, uh, in healthier. Mm-hmm mm-hmm it brings, you know, we're kind of talking a little bit about polyvagal theory where the brain and nervous system shift into, you know, the, uh, defensive response to a threat mm-hmm , which were mammals, you know, everyone responds to threat the same way for the most part, you know, we'll have either that flea response or perhaps fight response and, uh, you know, often we think.
I'm not angry, so I'm not experiencing anger, but in today's world that fight response can show up as irritability or you're right. Excessive energy or, or, um, just kind of like built up in the system, which I think is such a cool way of. Of furthering our understanding of our emotions. It's not only what are the thoughts that accompany them.
Mm-hmm but also like what are the somatic responses? So, you know, we're gonna give you some tips. I promise listeners, we'll give you some like body based tips for managing anger during our second half of the episode. So don't go, but, um, But I can help, but think about also how anger is experienced, you know, not just on an individual level, through those thoughts, feelings, and sensations, but, but really systemically, you know, if we take it outside of ourselves and we look at it in our family of origin or the families we create as adults, um, In our workplaces, in our communities and, and even within different cultures or different genders may be conditioned to express anger differently.
What are, what are your thoughts about just the systemic view or experience of anger? Yeah, and I think actually considering that is probably a really wonderful first step in, um, addressing any anger challenges that you might have, um, challenges with anger expression, I should say. Um, So I would say it's helpful, you know, to consider how anger was expressed in our families.
Mm. Um, some helpful questions might be, you know, just kind of thinking back in your household, how you grew up and how individual family members expressed their anger, uh, thinking, you know, were these healthy or unhealthy responses, uh, similarities that you might. Between how you and other family members express anger, maybe a reflection of other people in your life and how they deal with anger and, you know, asking yourself, are there people in your life who you think deal with anger in healthy ways?
And why is that? Mm-hmm um, I think one other way of effectively managing anger is to be vulnerable and express feelings. And unfortunately, in our society, it's not something that a lot of boys are taught to do. I think we're making improvements in this area. Mm-hmm um, but, um, you know, a lot of boys don't have the skills to be able to soothe themselves appropriately when they feel anger.
And, you know, one of those ways, again, might be to say, uh, I'm feeling sad, you know, mm-hmm um, and, and get to those feelings kind of beneath that anger. Like I said, um, you know, our society boys aren't really taught to do that. Um, girls are typically encouraged to be nice and to people please. And since anger isn't typically seen as being nice, um, mm-hmm, , it can then create more passive aggressive communication.
So, um, kind of like an indirect aggression in which people express anger without directly communicating feelings or needs. uh, passive aggressive communication can be a way for some to avoid that direct conflict or avoid having to identify and express needs to others. So we're looking at how anger is expressed in our families, gender conditioning, you know, how else systemically do you, do you think it would be helpful to start looking at the expression of anger?
Yeah, I think, you know, considering social, uh, you know, other social and cultural factors. So, um, you know, a lot of times, um, easily angered people can have a low tolerance for frustration that could be due partially to genetics. But, um, like we said, you know, a lot of times there's other things coming into play.
So in American culture, we rarely learn how to express, uh, and regulate anger in effective and healthy. And in fact, the way that we typically might express anger, either by pushing it away or indulging in it, mm-hmm can be associated with elevated, um, health risks. So in the us expressing anger seems to be a reflection of how often people are experiencing.
Circumstances. So extra stressors in their life. And in Western culture, anger expression is often linked with a lower social status. Uh, but culture is important. For instance, in Japanese cultures, anger may be more reflective of those with higher social status. Um, and may reflect the amount of people who feel entitled or maybe empowered by anger.
So in this way, anger expression in Japanese culture could actually be linked with lower adverse health risk. Than with, uh, Western Western cultures. So it's not necessarily the anger itself that causes health risks. It's the circumstances surrounding the anger as well as the expression. Hmm. So, um, in Western cultures, more stressors in life can equate to more aggressive and delinquent behaviors overall.
Wow. Wow. Well, as a therapist, I'm sure you experienced this too, but my clients and I, we often talk about how they're coping with their feelings of anger and, you know, in your opinion, what are some of the, you know, unhealthy coping strategies? Mm-hmm yeah. So, um, I think, you know, often. What we see, um, is that people are shouting, they're swearing, they're throwing things.
Um, maybe even being abusive, you know, throwing things at people or even hitting somebody. Um, and obviously that kind of anger expression can lead to lots of complications in your life. Yeah. You know, losing jobs, losing relationships. So I think, um, You know, while some think, oh, we're, we're expressing anger, right.
We're letting it loose. Um, mm-hmm, actually letting it loose in those kind of ways, uh, is not only dangerous, but it can also kind of serve to fan the flames of anger and just kind of keep the negativity and anger going. Mm-hmm um, versus actually managing the. um, another healthy, unhealthy way of dealing with anger is, um, you know, people who might avoid anger altogether.
Um, so again, you know, kind of going back to socially, you know, maybe it's not as acceptable for a woman to express anger where a man, it definitely is. Mm. um, so what we see sometimes, you know, in those folks is, you know, avoiding or maybe pushing away anger, um, and that can also lead to health complications such as hyper protection di or excuse me, depression, um, as well as unhealthy ways, um, of handling anger, such as passive aggressive behavior or cynical or hostile behavior.
Mm-hmm. So I think at times we can prolong date anger by fueling it with unhealthy narratives. Mm. So, you know, brain scientists say, you know, that emotions typically fade within 90 seconds. Yeah. But that we keep them going right with our thoughts, with our narratives, with our stories. And so asking yourself if you're UN unnecessarily fueling the anger with unhelpful or unrealistic thinking may be helpful.
um, anger can also be described as a cover emotion, so it can serve as a distraction from the feelings that may lurk beneath the surface. So maybe sadness, fear, unworthiness, and since expressing these emotions can feel vulnerable, expressing anger can feel safe. Uh, you know, safer than expressing those other sure really vulnerable emotions.
So in that way, anger can serve to kind of numb other feelings, but in the process, it kind of prevents us from healing because we're not accessing and addressing. The feelings necessary to heal well, and there's been, when I was younger, there were so many times where my default would just be a fight response, right.
Because it was so much easier to be angry than to talk about how I was hurt or to talk about how scared I was feeling. And, you know, we all pick up these coping strategies, but you're right when we can earlier, when you talked about vulnerability and how that can help combat. Anger, you know, I, I, I think that's, I think that's really important.
Yeah. Mm-hmm, , mm-hmm so instead of these unhealthy ways, you know, I would say, um, some healthy ways of responding to anger include, um, obviously expressing anger in non-abuse ways. Um, so communicating feelings, communicating. Learning to identify your anger, triggers, and other emotions that come beneath the anger and then using some soothing strategies, um, to calm the anger.
Uh, so, um, anger can serve some really healthy, wonderful things. You know, it can let us know, Hey, a boundary needs to be set with somebody. I don't like the way that somebody's treating me. It can also help to prepare us to combat injustices and make needed change in our communities. Hmm. So it can, it can help motivate us to create change and, um, it can also help us to defend ourselves and stay safe in dangerous situ.
At times anger can let us know that the mistreatment that we received is wrong and help us motivate to make other changes. So, um, one thing that I hear really often from people is that anger can feel really quick, you know? So it's it's um, so how do I deal with anger when it comes on so quick? Mm-hmm and I would say like the trick, the trick to that is to notice.
You know, the cues in your body that you're starting to become angry and other signs, you know, maybe your thoughts, you know, start to mm-hmm , um, you know, increase some frustration. Um, and in that way, when you're noticing your thoughts, when you're noticing these bodily cues, it just helps to kind of slow down the process so that you can put in some coping.
Mm, mm-hmm Tara Brock talks about the magic quarter second that we have between impulse and, uh, choice or action taken. Right. Oh, and okay. I, I just really love that because you know, things do happen so quickly. Those neurons do fire so fast and, and to acknowledge, you know, there's just, she says there's research shows that there's this quarter of a second, where.
I mean, it sounds pretty hard to catch yourself in a quarter of a second , but even the idea of it starts like creating space for opportunity of like observing the self and then just that slight pause. Right. And we practice, we practice those pauses and. We also look back and we think about where could that, that pause may be been, or what would I do differently as, as we, you know, interrupt and change these, like we said earlier, coping strategies that maybe have been in place for a really long time.
Mm-hmm um, yeah, so that we can find healthier ways so we can disrupt that loop. That chain. Absolutely. So. Yeah, we're starting to talk about, um, the better part of the segment, in my opinion, where we actually give strategies so that people can start to create change in their life, you know, even, even today mm-hmm
So that brings us to the concept of anger management. I've heard that phrase of lot, a lot. Um, I mean, how would. How would you literally define what is anger management? I think it's about just doing, you know, recognizing what's in your control about a situation and what's not, and managing your responses, your reactions, and learning to soothe yourself when needed.
Yeah, I like that. So what are some strategies? I'm sure. A whole bunch of different ones, but you know, what comes to mind for you for kind of noticing and soothing mm-hmm . So I think, you know, first might be to, um, identify those typical anger triggers. So you can plan in advance how you might like to respond.
So some examples include, um, feeling threatened, feeling powerless, feeling as if we're being treated unfairly. Or feeling as if others aren't being respectful. Um, so identifying those triggers, knowing that, Hey, I might need to pause a little bit more when I experience something like this, um, is a good, is a good first step.
Um, that leads to. Practicing pausing. Um, I think that's a really important step. It's a really hard step mm-hmm seems very easy, but um, obviously anger, excess energy. We wanna speak. We want to, you know, um, take action. And so just practicing a pause when you notice anger coming up, you know, when you notice those bodily cues, those thoughts and reflect on what's happening, trying to do that without judgment.
Mm mm-hmm without judgment. We, we like that. Self-compassion here. Yes. At insight. Definitely. um, okay. So I think, you know, some other ones, um, like I said, going into more detail, identifying thoughts, feelings, physical sensations, or bodily cues that you're starting to become angry, really get to know those within yourself.
Um, so, you know, we kind of talked about this before, but does your heart rate start going? Mm-hmm , you know, are you clenching your fists? Are you tensing your shoulders? Um, are you starting to notice that you're having trouble focusing? You know, really using that mindfulness to check in with yourself and, um, you know, that'll help slow down the process so that, um, you can start to identify anger before it gets unmanageable.
well sure. Cuz when we're in the present, like noticing our body helps put us in the present moment. Right. And helps us shift out of the midbrain where we do have our alarm system where there's a threat being detected and we're going into action. But that front of the brain, that, that prefrontal cortex is where, where our logic and decision making, you know, is.
So I, I like that strategy of just starting to slow down and notice the sensations already shifts you back into the front of your brain already gives you more control over your next response. Absolutely. And since we've been talking so much about how anger can have this effect of excess energy in the body, I think, um, for a lot of people, uh, getting moving can really.
So, um, engaging in physical activity can help burn off tension, can reduce. Um, and it can also just help you clear your mind so you can, you know, focus on a different perspective. Um, conversely, you know, perhaps you might be someone who instead of, you know, getting moving, you wanna engage in a relaxation activity.
So breathing exercises, meditation, yoga might be all really good ways of activating the parasympathetic nervous system. Yeah. And so just kind of bringing about more calming to the. Mm-hmm mm-hmm and sensory motor therapy. We, one of the standard resources is to, you know, to get that energy out. We, first of all, we wanna stay mindful while we get that energy out right earlier, you were talking about how it can fuel the fire.
I think that when we lose that sense of mindfulness. We actually further the hyper arousal. We further the fight response, but when we can stay mindful in that movement, we actually can bring ourselves back into like our window basically, and our, our optimal functioning. And so, you know, mindfully pushing against the wall or mindfully going for a jog or, you know, I, I mean, that's why I love weightlifting too.
It can be that external. Some that movement, but you're right. Also then often when someone is in that place of fight, we, we wanna ground and we wanna bring back to the present moment and then, and help, you know, help the body regulate first because if the body can regulate that naturally tells the brain that you're safe and, and those emotions become more manageable.
Yes. Yes. Really cool. How those things kind of connect. I know. I love it. Yeah. , you know, and in terms of the, the feelings and the thoughts, you know, we've already said kind of identifying the feelings that come, you know, beneath that anger. saying them out loud and saying, okay, now that you know, they're out there, what am I gonna do with this?
How, how can I Sue these feelings? And then, you know, focusing on the facts of the situation, because oftentimes, like we said earlier, our narratives can help fuel that fire. And so practicing, um, What we call cognitive restructuring. Um, so thinking of situations in just a more realistic way, I don't like to say necessarily positive, but just more realistically, um, in factually based ways.
So part of why we are experiencing the anger may be because of the meaning that we're attaching to the situation. So just being aware of those process too, mm-hmm I think, you know, for an example of that one, I think right away of, um, Driving and someone cuts you off, right? and yes. You know, the, the narrative can be like, oh, you know what a jerk.
They did that to me on purpose. They're not being considerate of me. Like, no one's honoring me in this moment. and, you know, that's where you always try that trick where you imagine it was your grandma driving that car to like yeah. Help you feel, or your favorite grade school teacher. I mean, whoever, you know, that like, okay, what if they were doing that?
Like, how does that shift, how does that open up more narratives and, and maybe base it more in reality, honestly. Right. Because it's very. It's very few and far between that people are maliciously trying to hurt other people. And absolutely so, so I like that restructuring of, you know, bringing it more. The reality, like maybe they just made a mistake and is that okay?
Glad everyone's safe. Kind of, you know, right, right. I went to this training, um, years and years ago and the person came out the person who was leading the training and, um, I'll never forget it because it was really, um, You know, kind of career altering kind of moment for me almost. Um, because she said, you know, in, in terms of our narratives, you know, it's all crap, right?
I mean, we don't really know the true story. We don't really know what's going on. So if it's all crap, why not make up happy? Yeah.
oh, yes, exactly. Like if it, if there's my reality, your reality, and then the reality. Yeah. Can we make up a little bit of a better reality? Yeah. And challenge that, that old narrative. Yeah. I love it. Just make up happy crap. That's my favorite . I should be on like a plaque. Yes. In our office. Just make up happy crap.
Well, then let's look a little bit more about, you know, if people are, we've talked a lot in this episode about needs. I think I hear often with people I've felt it myself too, that anger can show up when we don't feel like our needs are being met and, and that can be really hurtful, but yet. What do we do then if we kind of feel as though, like I'm feeling really frustrated because no, one's acknowledging what I need in this situation, or I'm not getting my needs met.
Mm-hmm . But I think that, um, you know, when you have, when someone has issues maybe identifying or expressing their needs that's can, you know, lead to that unhelpful, passive aggressive communication or aggressive communication. Mm-hmm . So I think, you know, that's something, um, that's very important in anger.
Regulation is kind of determining your needs and learning how to a assertively express them to people, which is, which is a practice, you know, that can be really hard to do. And it's, it's a vulnerable state to put yourself in mm-hmm so, um, I think learning to, um, you know, that's where we identified the feeling.
And then we can identify the need that is attached to that feeling. Mm-hmm and then learning to express. mm-hmm and, you know, sometimes for me exploring with, with someone, maybe the root of, you know, how old is this need, right. Is this an inner child, or was this an inner teenager who didn't have their needs met and were they allowed to say it at that time?
And how can we work with those parts? Because maybe. It wouldn't be helpful or safe to tell the person in the present moment what your need is. Um, maybe because they're just a stranger per se or, or what, if's just not a dynamic you feel emotionally safe with, but you know, that your needs aren't being met.
Like how can you be there for yourself and meet your needs? Right. And, and what is the root of that? And are there any younger. Who were showing up mm-hmm or maybe you're, you're upset with your best friend, but it has nothing to do with your best friend, because it has to do with, you know, your mom back in the day of, of something else.
And it's just bringing that forth. So I, I, I appreciate kind of the, the, the exploration, if there's anything else going on there, any wounds that we can help heal and be there for any parts along the way as well. Absolutely. I think doing investigation is, is really helpful. Mm-hmm when you have those difficult emotions come up and especially if you're having a hard time determining why it's come up for you.
Mm. I mean, there's always a reason that feelings come up and sometimes it's just harder to uncover. Mm-hmm mm-hmm . how well let's talk. We'll, we'll kind of close out, um, soon, but, you know, I think I really like before, when we've we've you and I were talking just about, you know, who are safe spaces, like how do we identify the safe spaces versus, you know, the venting?
You know what I mean? Kind of mm-hmm . What are your thoughts on, like, who do you bring your anger to and, and who is a helpful resource versus how do you identify people that maybe aren't going to be like help lead that anger to be processed in a supportive way? Mm-hmm well, it's definitely very helpful to, um, have people in your life that you could express anger with.
Absolutely. I think the question that sometimes I ask my clients are, you know, are you expressing that anger, getting it out and then problem solving. Are you taking action? Are you deciding on the correct course? Or are you just continuing, like I said before to fuel that anger mm-hmm um, and so. You know, again, that kind of goes back to the expression of anger, you know, mm-hmm , you can say I'm angry.
This is why, you know, and talk about those feelings, talk about the situation and then it's gotta be, you know, How, what do I do now with it? Mm-hmm is this something that I can manage within myself? Or is there a need I need to express mm-hmm um, is there a boundary I need to set? So I think that's kind of the difference for me.
Um, in those two things is, you know, are you just. You know, kind of going on a rant and, and getting yourself more and more angry, are you actually doing some problem solving? Mm mm-hmm mm-hmm . And, and who are you doing that problem solving with? Right? Like, are they people who are invested in your wellbeing and are they, do they bring a calming presence?
Are they helping you problem solve mm-hmm um, or. You know, is it the opposite? And maybe you walk away feeling like I'm even more upset now, you know? Yes. Um, which, which is, it's a good thing to think about because, you know, sometimes we don't notice how we're picking up other people's energies and, and when you bring these strong emotions and you're.
Working to process them, you know, finding those safe places where you co-regulate, where you feel calm, where you are able to think critically. And, and then to do that deeper work, like you're talking about. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being here today. You know, we've said it before, but anger is felt by all of us.
Mm-hmm and I, I really appreciate being able to spend the time talking about it and honoring its existence and, and learning new ways to manage it so that we're more in control of our emotion. You know, when, when we feel like we can manage our emotions, I think, you know, we feel so much more empowered and we feel much more in control of our life.
Yes. And that helps decrease anxiety that helps decrease depression and, and build confidence. Absolutely. Yes. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you again for joining us on Insight Mind Body Talk, a body-centered mental health podcast. We hope today's episode was empowering and supported you in strengthening your mind-body connection.
We're your hosts, Jeanne and Jess. Please join us again as we continue to explore integrative approaches to wellbeing. Until then, take care.